

The Two Faces of Messi: Argentina vs Barcelona
By: Ade C. | October 14th, 2009The criticism of Leo Messi’s form with the Argentina NT, particularly when compared to what he does for Barcelona, has been so unrelenting lately that even VĂctor ValdĂ©s, a man who’s been closest to a national team call-up when he has been sticking pins in an Iker Casillas doll, has had to come to his defence.
Let’s face it, when playing with the albiceleste, Messi is not the same marvel than he is when playing in blaugrana. He has scored just four goals in the qualification phase, and none of them have been particularly crucial; he assists less, plays less and generally shines much less when sharing the field with Tévez, Agüero & Co. than at the Camp Nou.
Which one is the Evil Twin? You get three guesses and the first two don’t count…
The Argentinean press, sensible and unrushed as always (yes, I’m rolling my eyes here), has made loud calls to bench Leo in the match against Uruguay, with the most benevolent of them agreeing to let Messi play a few minutes in the second half; apparently, over 60% of Argentineans polled agreed with this, while the culĂ©s watching from Europe can’t understand why anyone would leave Leo in the bench when he was itching to play (although we’re grateful for it, too; the less he plays, the less chances he has to get injured, and also the angrier he’ll be on his return to Barcelona, which means he’ll make all that much more of an effort… yes, call me selfish, but don’t you remember his excellent form after losing with Argentina against Brazil in September?).
The bright minds over at ClarĂn, Sport and The Spoiler , to name but a few, have all tried to pitch in with reasons for these Dr-Jekyll-and-Mr-Hyde performances, and I figured I should do my own bit of analysis (remember, it’s not plagiarism if it’s culled from many sources, then it’s called “research”).
1) Maradona is not Pep: I’m going to say Diego was a better *player* than Guardiola (although you’re free to disagree), but when it comes to managing, the mere threat of comparison is unfair. Pep has an idea, a style (and I’m not just talking about his cardigans and the infamous leather tie) and a way to communicate this to his players; Maradona has plenty of ideas, but they all seem contradictory, and his players often look like lost little lambs being shooed onto the pitch with no instructions.
2) AgĂĽero and TĂ©vez (or Palermo, or HigĂĽaĂn) are not Henry and Eto’o (or Ibrahimovic): sometimes it seems as if Messi enjoys giving assists more than he enjoys scoring beautiful goals; Samuel, Thierry, Bojan, Pedrito, Xavi, AndrĂ©s, Zlatan and a long list of etceteras would certainly agree with me. Problem is, his partners in the Argentinean strike-force are not used to this generosity; you see no selfless assists in Real Madrid or in either of the Manchester teams, and El Kun often has a similar mentality towards Forlán for AtlĂ©tico. If there is no one to take advantage of Leo’s passing, there’s no much point in his doing it, is it?
3) Mascherano and Aimar (or Verón) are not Xavi and Iniesta: I shouldn’t have to say this, but I will. We have one of the best midfields of the world, if not the best. We have two men who make the kind of clinical, magical passes that you want to watch again and again, even if they don’t lead to goals. We have a force perfectly attuned to providing our strikers with passing, opportunities and, if it comes down to it, resolving a run themselves. Argentina doesn’t; if Messi has to battle the defenders all the way to the midfield to find the ball, and then battle his way with it all the way to the goal to score, he’s obviously going to be less effective than when he gets served with delicious passes.
4) 4-3-3 or 4-4-2? OK, I’ll admit this might be a personal preference. But the fact is that Messi’s style of play is more suited to the wider spaces he gets when his team plays 4-3-3, than when he has to battle the concerted efforts of a defences focused on him and a sole partner (and if this partner is the equally tiny Agüero, and their opponents are some of the legendarily rough South American center-backs, even more so).
5) South American football is different: trust me, I grew up watching South American football; watching a Liga or even Premier match after that is enough to make you wonder if they’re really the same sport. Leo Messi is a child of La MasĂa and its style of play, and just as we make allowances for South American players recently arrived to European football, we should make allowances for the return journey.
6) Club is not country: and I mean this in the best way possible. For one thing, club means months and months of training, travelling, eating and living with your team; national team duty is a hasty few days after flying from all corners of the world, playing with a group of people who are never the same from one call-up to the next. Also, Leo grew up as a blaugrana, going through all the categories, from are-you-sure-he’s-big-enough-to-play to of-course-he’s-the-best-player-in-the-world-thanks-for-asking. In Argentina, he made his debut already with the pressure of filling Maradona’s empty shoes and with the press and the whole country breathing down his neck; I don’t imagine things are any better now he’s wearing the iconic “10” shirt under the eyes of the man who, for many, will be its only owner. Yes, he thrives under pressure, but so much?
Some people (asides from ValdĂ©s) have come to Messi’s defence (most notably Argentinean legends CĂ©sar Menotti and “El Cholo” Simeone, and Maradona refuses to listen to any criticism thrown in Leo’s direction (I bet Kun AgĂĽero would love that to happen to him). It’s not enough. I’m hoping tonight, in the match against Uruguay, Leo will score a couple of goals and silence those that were criticising him; if not, then I’ll be contented with having him back in Barcelona, safe, uninjured and itching to prove his worth against Valencia (like Ibra said, “If Argentina don’t want Messi, we’ll (Sweden) take him”.)
So, what do you think?
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Thank you, Vivek, for clearing that up for us… but, erm, Messi is just 22. At his age, Zizou was just debuting with the French NT and was far from the player he grew up to be. Ronaldo was a bit better at that age, but then again that Brazilian NT was something out of this world. So, let’s just keep things in perspective, alright?
And yes, PiquĂ© scored the first goal for Spain tonight and Iniesta played dreamily… it seems he’ll be fit for Saturday, if nothing else.
Let’s all keep our fingers crossed for Leo and Argentina tonight, please?Posted from
Spain

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lol Ronaldo was a bit better? don’t insult my favorite player like that, he had already won the world cup by that age. And he was amazing at the age, not a bit better.
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United States

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If the website I checked is reliable, Ronaldo did not play A SINGLE SECOND in the WC ‘94 (despite being in the full squad). So I don’t see the point here…
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Germany

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WOWWW…….IM glad to see the barca offside back on track and gaining back so much attention…
i have to say i love the new reads here.Posted from
United States

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Nice work guys and i have to say good writing. I try to make my own blog similar to yours but your standard here is unbelievable.
http://mega-fcbarcelonablog.blogspot.com/Posted from
United States

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shit article. if “you see no selfless assists in Real Madrid or in either of the Manchester teams” isn’t a horrible biased statement, i don’t know what is. all of you Barca fans are all uppity about your style, but to say that? please… get off your high horse.
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thanks for taking us off our high horse Ryan! and great of you to give such great insight into the article as well!
I wish us uppity barca fans were alot like you!Posted from
United States

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Helge ronaldo was 16 back then how old was messi when he got his first cap ? Messi’s a beast but ronaldo at 22 was a beast eating beast don’t compare the two please
Ade zidane was still a phenom at 22 not trying to be rude but please don’t comment on something you don’t know about
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I bet this annoys Ryan too.’mĂ©s que un club’:D .Do grace with your presence again soon!
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Well, thanks for the support and the compliments, Tahj and Mario!
Ryan, sorry you didn’t like the article. I’ve watched many RM and ManU matches and I haven’t seen the kind of joyful assisting I see at Barça, but then again… I’m a Barça supporter. “Partial” doesn’t even begin to cover it; my horse is high indeed…
And, for the Ronaldo debate… yes, he was a fantastic player when he was Messi’s age, and younger (and in a way, he still is). Yes, he won more titles with Brazil than Messi has so far with Argentina. But, let’s remember that was the Brazil of Romario, Bebeto, Rivaldo and a long list of etceteras… Ronaldo didn’t need to carry the whole team on his star-power, as the Argentineans expect Messi to do.
Anyway, after an unexciting game against Uruguay, Argentina has finally qualified for the World Cup. Let’s see what happens then…Posted from
Spain

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Ronaldo, brazilian version, was a goal scorer and very good one at that. He might even be among the top goal scorers. But he was not in the same league as Messi as a player. With Messi, we speak about his possibility to go and join Maradona, DiStefano and Cruijff. And to do that, he does not necessarily need to win WC. DiStefano or Cruijff did not.
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@ for real?
First of all, Ronaldo was 17 years and 9 month of age during the WC 94. And I just wanted to stress that winning a cup without playing a single minute during the tournament does not count as a trophy for that particular player. So, Ronaldo actually won the WC in 2002 when he was 25 years old.
Plus, Ronaldo entered the Spanish League at the age of 20, Messi played his first match at 17? Or maybe 18, at least he was younger. And he was already a regular starter with 19 years of age.
Yes, Ronaldo already kicked ass in the Dutch League for 2 seasons before joining Barca, but you cannot compare those 2 leagues.
So, saying that one cannot compare the two of them is false, imo. Messi might not have scored as many goals as Ronaldo did until 22 years of age, but therefore I’m sure Messi’s got a lot more assists. Both have (resp. have had) the potential to be one of the greatest players of all times. But Ronaldo’s talent was wasted by injuries occuring from too much pressure of Nike or whatever, the story about the real Ronaldo will never be completely solved.
To conclude, I think that talent-wise they are equally or at least comparable strong, but Messi could face 14 years on top level if he stays healthy and down-to-earth.Posted from
Germany

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Okay. First off, I’d take Ronaldo (there’s only one Ronaldo for me) over Messi in about two seconds. Sorry. I love our little crack, but I would. When he was fit, nobody, but nobody, could put balls in the back of net like he could. It was just crazy.
Zidane too.
But this is now. And now, Messi is surrounded by the same kind of player, and they all need the ball. Nobody is all that interested in possession or playing possession football and when they lose the ball, nobody tries all that hard to get it back. Never mind the static defense.
If there was ever a national side that needed to play like us, it’s Argentina. But they don’t. In part because that isn’t the South American style, but in part because they don’t have a coach. So Messi will never be as good for this version of their NT as he is with Barcelona. Don’t underestimate the majesty of Xavi, and the space created by talented players such as Henry, Eto’o, Iniesta, etc. If you give Messi the ball and run away, expecting him to work magic, you’re going to be bummed at the consequences.
And permit me to (respectfully, as always) disagree, Helge. No way Messi has more than 5-7 years at the top flight, unless he develops more versatility than he has right now. The waterbug thing only works for so long. Ask Shaun Wright-Phillips. Yes, Messi is a lot more talented than him. But players who create from explosive movement, pace and dribbling have shorter shelf lives. Just look at Ronaldinho.
Now, I could very easily see Messi as a Xavi type as he ages, but I don’t think he has much interest in being that kind of a player.
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Agree completely with you Kxevin, and we are taking about right now, there is no point taking about what messi might or might not become. I would even go on to say that Messi isnt that much better than Thong Boy. All I am saying is if Messi is currently the best player in the world, he should maybe have a bigger impact on the game single handedly like Ronaldo or Zidane.
Maybe the best player from the current crop isnt as good as likes of the above mentioned duo.Posted from
United States

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Messi is better than Zidane was at 22 so dont compare the two.
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congrats on your new position, enjoyed your blogs so far; they were very entertaining.
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that’s an interesting statement xkevin: “I could very easily see Messi as a Xavi type as he ages”…
I always imagined Messi or other players to be brought more forward as there careers progressed. But that’s pretty smart, if Messi learns how to play in the center. He could become more of an “Iniesta” type player. But I can see Pique being brought to feel in The Yaya(The Yaya as a central defender like in the cl). Messi as an attacking right wing mid or more central role. Other players too, I could go down the roster.
Man!! I love the versatility of our team.
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I’ve never really gotten into the whole “comparing players” gig, especially because there are so many factors that can contribute one way or the other (teams, styles of play, rivals, injuries, etc…), but it’s nice to see people weighing in the debate and bringing their own opinions…
A really nice point from Kevin, about the possibility of Messi developing into a Xavi-kind of playmaker… that’s something I hope we’ll see someday (so we can brag about the prophecy having been made here first)!
And thanks, Eduard, glad to see you’re liking the Barcelona Offside re-birth so far!
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Permission granted, Kxevin
It’s maybe more of a hope than a prediction from me, that’s why I said “could”. Don’t take this hope away from me!
Messi is the first player that I followed from the beginning of his professional career and fell in love with immediately. I’m too young for having experienced a similar situation with Ronaldo (so you are a better judge when it comes to comparing the two… my rating of Ronaldo was based on things I’ve seen during the WC 98 and youtube videos. I guess his best time were his years at PSV, Barca and maybe the first at Inter. Shame on me^^). And other players developed into world class at a later age (Xavi, Zidane, even Iniesta I’d say). Ok, maybe there is a certain Thong Boy which career was as impressive from the beginning, but I truely detest this guy, I could never be a fan of him.
I think you contradict yourself (or it might turn out to it as time goes by) when you claim that there is NO WAY Messi has more than 5-7 years at top flight (he is at top flight for ~ 2 years already, agree?). How do you define top flight? Is Zlatan currently at top flight?
The contradictory part is some lines later where you could see him develop into a player like Xavi. Xavi certainly is at top flight and a player like him can be until ~32 years of age. Or did I misunderstand? There’s at least a bit of a conflict, right?So why don’t we agree on that it is unlikely (NOT impossible) for Messi to stay world class for more than 8 years?
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True, Helge. To clarify: He won’t have 5-7 years at the top flight as the player that he is. Explosiveness and pace are among the first things to go. Throw in that players get more injury-prone as they age, and I base my supposition on that.
Now, if he develops into a different kind of player, you can see him going far beyond 5-7 years in the top flight. While I think it’s nonsense when people say that Xavi doesn’t run (which is why he can play so much), his orchestrator position does preclude the end-to-end runs that the likes of Henry, Messi and Ibrahimovic make. He also needs the skills that Messi already possesses: a quick first step, ball control, vision and passing acuity.
If Messi shifts his game, he can be at the highest level until his early 30s, which gives him 10 more seasons.
I look at Ronaldinho. If he were willing to put the effort in to become either a Xavi type, or that back to goal player who brings the attack to the second level of the defense. When he plays that way for Milan, they are vastly more effective than when he does his usual “run into 3 defenders, lose the ball, fall down and throw up his arms” bit.
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Great topic, guys!
Besides being a culĂ©, I’m also a rabid Argy fan so I’ve followed Messi since back in his Masia days. Ade made some very good points. Here’s some rambling from me:
Messi’s position:Part of what makes Messi so effective in Barcelona hinders him in Argentina. Have you ever wondered what the hell does Messi play (as in what position)? Is he a winger, a supporting striker, a false 9, an enganche, an attacking midfielder, a true striker? In any given Barca game he can play any of the aforementioned positions. The problem? The Cruyff-ized FC Barcelona (post Dream Team) plays a unique style. Nobody else in the world plays like we do style and philosophy-wise. I’m not saying it makes us necessarily superior to everybody else but it does make us different. Messi grew up in La Masia and was in a sense developed to fit into that unique system. In turn, Barcelona under Pep has tweaked the system to fit Messi. A large part of his effectiveness is due to him being moved around into different positions on the pitch thus keeping defenses on edge and the team executes those switches without missing a beat. We are a fluid team that constantly switches players along the front line.
The logic behind all those switches is that Messi is a human mismatch, a hybrid. He can outpace and run by bigger defenders or overpower ones that are his size. Furthermore this frees him of markers given all the attention that he draws. However, in order to do this properly, it is necessary to get him the ball in positions where he can exploit his best qualities. For instance, you want him in a one on one on the wing, in space against bigger and slower centerbacks, or receiving the ball in stride on one of his blistering runs. This requires certain things from his teammates and his coach. Firstly, his teammates should be versatile enough to switch positions and still be effective. Henry and Ibra can both play the wing and the 9, Iniesta can play both wing positions or as a midfielder, Alves essentially plays as a right winger when Messi goes on a rampage in the center, Xavi frequently crashes the box, etc…
Argentina, despite having great players in their own right, does not have the versatile players required to run such an attack nor the fluidity. Perhaps more importantly, it’s coach has done a horrible job of explaining a coherent tactical structure to the players. Like most teams in the world and especially one that must build chemistry in such a short time, Argentina has tried to play set formations a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. In Barcelona the 4-3-3 constantly changes. This means that Messi has been either hog tied to a single position where he can be neutralized or he runs around all over the field trying to get the ball while the other players stay in position thus reducing space and not allowing him to get the looks he needs to be effective. They’ve tried him in a classic 4-3-3, as a 4-4-2 winger, as a 4-4-2 supporting striker, as a 4-2-3-1 enganche, and even a 4-3-1-2 trequartista but he has not been as effective as any of them compared to how he is in Barca. What they don’t seem to understand is that he is an ace in the hole to move around and exploit mismatches, something for which you need a coherent strategy and an orchestrator to control the tempo and push the ball forward. Riquelme had that role (although I did not like his tempo or mercurialness at all) and you could say that him and Messi didn’t do that bad in the Copa America 2007 or the Olympics.
Menotti made a great point when he said that Messi finishes moves but doesn’t orchestrate them yet. Don’t get me wrong, I love Messi’s assists and playmaking. However, he does have a point in that Messi does not set the tempo or orchestrate the overall strategy in Barcelona but is expected to do so in Argentina. He playmakes but does so most effectively when his teammates put him in position to do so and get him the ball while also offering themselves as options. In Barcelona he has been trained to fit into the system and the system has been further tweaked to suit him even better. He does not have the same luxury in Argentina. Hopefully some day he can orchestrate a whole team but right now he is not ready.
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United States

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The Knowledge has spoken again. Maybe I’m easy to convince, but I can only approve all your points, Hector.
To be honest, I think one of the reasons why Spain has the best NT today is that they come quite close to Barca’s philosophy and style of play (ok, this somehow implies that I prefer this style over anything else… yap, that’s true:D). Usually, 4 players of the starting line-up are from Barcelona and they don’t face the problem of being misunderstood by teammates and the coach. They don’t have to adopt their style because Spain is intelligent enough to make them feel comfortable without changing their habits and automatisms.
I believe that Argentina could at least play in a quite similar style if they had another coach and would use the right players. As you’ve said, they would never reach Barcelona’s phiolosophy and way of playing, but they could certainly come closer to it than they are right now (and they DO have the players for achieving it, but they are partially not being called up by Morondona). I don’t want to say that Argentina has to adopt their game to Messi’s, I am quite sure that the whole team would benefit from a tactical change (which goes together with a change of players) that equals ours.I’ve read about a new embarassing video of Morondona in which he makes sexual gestures towards to Albicileste fans. How far can he go until being sacked? I truely start to believe that this once exceptionally gifted player loses control of his mentality, or to say it with the words of Cyprus Hill: “Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!”.
Posted from
Germany

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*Replace adopt by adapt in my previous comment.
Posted from
Germany

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You make some fantastic points there, Hector. I’m glad you approve of mine, and it’s nice to see someone also interested in tactical positions and formations of play… and yeah, while it’s obvious that Argentina can’t replicate our deliciously fluid style of play (even less so if Maradona is going to be the one doing the “explaining”), even then, they should try to accommodate Messi a bit more if they expect him to perform miracles.
And Helge, what can I say about Maradona? Telling the press to “suck it”? Refusing to apolgise when called up on it? I just wish someone in the AFA would just screw up their courage and sack him… it’s sad, really.Posted from
Spain

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I think Hector said it once, though Maradona is a fool of a coach “the real roblem is Grondona”.
Posted from
United States

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