All Hail El Geta

@jake: How does a mid ranked team in Spain beat the German champions?

Jake, sorry to bring that to you: they obviously didn't beat them.
(and they aren't the champions either, but that's another story)

And for the always interesting, but never ending story of which league is stronger: just head over to Bert Kassies and his superb visualiation of the UEFA country rankings 1995 - 2010, which is plotted by pure statistical beauty.

Ste, that's true about the history of the EPL, but the last few years have certainly changed the nature of the game. It's about transfer fees and TV rights more than it is about solid teams. In the past, yeah, the EPL was more egalitarian with its titles, but not now.

JC, I just think that we should re-institute the Golden Goal rule. Seriously, why not? I love that the NFL and NHL do that and I loved it during WC2002. It made for some awesome moments and it would do so again. It makes teams go for broke rather than sitting back like they do now.

It's not fair that Bayern get 30 mins extra to score 2 away goals. That rule shud be changed. If the 1st leg is a draw, go into extra time then too. or go straight to penalties in the 2nd leg.

The Big Four (as they are now termed) used to be a Big Two (Utd and Arsenal) Before that it was another Big Two (Liverpool and Arsenal) Before that you had the Big Two (Liverpool and Everton) and before THAT you had a period where the likes of Nottm Forest (twice) and Aston Villa could go on to win the European Cup. The English top tier has, historically, been a lot more open than people actually realise.

The Big Four are having a great run in CL this season, but I'm not sure that sells me that the EPL is the stronger league. First, I agree with Isaiah and Kxevin's point that La Liga is deeper than the EPL. Also, the EPL hasn't done well in CL the past fifteen or so years, really not since the early '80s. The recent success has been mostly Liverpool, who is the weakest of the four in the league most seasons but has some magic in CL.

It will be interesting to see the longer term effects of the money on the EPL, especially now that some mid table clubs seem like they want to throw it around. Right now, though, I think La Liga has the substance and the style.

Contra's quote sums up why this game is in all of our hearts. It is beautiful, even beautiful in its cruelty.

Jan's comment about removing the two weaknesses from the English game was damned funny, and so true. What effect the UEFA "home team" nonsense will have on the game remains to be seen.

I think that top four against top four, the EPL is the "best." But from top to bottom, La Liga has it down. Whether it's parity or parody, and whether true parity is a question of overall league strength or a simple talent dilution is another question for another time.

But as I said in another post on the topic over at the Mallorca board, it will take 40 points to stay up in La Liga. That's mid-table in the EPL. The lower-level (below the top four) teams are far more likely to be able to get a result against the top four in La Liga, than the EPL.

But that's also a consequence of the styles of play. The EPL is tighter and more physical, where La Liga is usually more open, making teams more prone to the killer counterattack. A great EPL game is just as fascinating as a great La Liga match. The Liverpool/Arsenal champions league match, once Liverpool was forced to come out to play by the Arsenal goal, was quite open and flowing, and would have been a victory for the beautiful game (yes, Arsenal) were it for the defensive lapses that we Blaugrana lovers are oh, so familiar with.

And Getafe can roast in a festering hell for what they did to us last week. Do I hold a grudge? You bet. Just like I hope that they've exorcised the demons from those goalposts at the Camp Nou in time for the upcoming matches. :D

Jan and Pep, I think the EPL is divided into 3 tiers: Big Four, Middle 12, Bottom 4. (You could argue 4, 13, 3 or some other variance, but the idea remains the same).

On the other hand, La Liga is divided into 2, 17, 1 (Levante being the true doormat) and I would argue that this causes La Liga to have more parity, especially since the gap between the top 2 (Barca and Real Madrid), is smaller than the gulf that seems to exist between the EPL's top 4 and the rest. If that's your criteria for a better league, then it's La Liga -- there's more competition, more fun to be had -- but I think that results are the major question here and English teams are pretty damned dominate on the European stage these days. Maybe it's because they have few English players as their superstars, but Spain's biggest names aren't Spanish either (Messi, Ronaldinho, Robinho, van Nistelrooy, Forlan even -- you could say David Villa, but I would counter with Luis Fabiano and Dani Alves; bring up Iniesta and Xavi and I could throw out Toure, Marquez, and Zambrotta from the same squad; Raul? Robben, Diarra, Sneijder.)

I don't think we have to hand that to the English, but to the new (not-English) owners... ;-)

Madrid really is a transfer disaster. Last year (I'm also counting the January transfers Gago, Higuain and Marcelo---the new Roberto Carlos...) they spent over 160 million euro (for our four summer transfers we paid something of 65 million, incentives not counted) and you really can't say one of the players brought in has been a key player in the team this season. They're again planning a reshuffle this summer...

Well, you have to hand it to the English that they unsentimentally identified and eliminated the two biggest weaknesses in the English game: English players and English managers. But I just used the Atletico example to play devil's advocate. I personally rate La Liga higher than the EPL.

Though I don't agree with the TV money argument. At least not in case of Spain's big two. Both Madrid and Barcelona have the resources to build squads who can compete both in depth and quality with the Big Four. Their individually brokered TV deals actually earn them more money than the top ranked Premier League sides. But in Madrid's case they just don't do a good job assembling a truly great and deep squad. They just throw out €100m a year like a clueless baby. The Big Four look so strong because teams like Madrid don't know how to spent all the cash properly.

For me it's clear the top four of the EPL is outstanding and cannot be matched by any other league (at this moment). But when you look behind, it's even so clear that the Liga is stronger as a whole. Look at the latest Uefa Cups and you see why: really modest Spanish teams (Alaves, anyone? last year Spain had three quarter finalists) perform great in that competition. This year it's less but Getafe was so close to eliminating the big favourite for the tournament.

By the way: what's English about the Premier League these days? The coaches, the players and -most importantly- the money sure isn't. The league is selling its soul and I guess the competition will get more and more boring with a lot of result-driven games.

Jan and jake, I would argue that the Premier League is the best league right now, but only because of the absurd amounts of money being spent there. The TV money is changing the face of the game much faster than most of us are willing to admit.

That's not to say that the EPL is the best league to watch; it's ugly and boring in a way that La Liga certainly isn't, but it has the money to get 45-man squads like ManU, Chelsea, and Liverpool have. Barcelona and Real Madrid are probably the deepest teams in La Liga and they've faced various injuries crises that have limited their capabilities -- something that can't happen in ManU etc because they just replace the injured player with another player.

That means they have the depth to run deep into European competition, whereas other teams, like Getafe, have to rely on pure guile and desire rather than replacements. Can you name 5 people on Getafe, without looking at yesterday's stat sheet? It'd be hard even for me, but I can name maybe 10 from Bayern Munich and they're not even in La Liga.

Also, about Atletico: they are chokers. It's what they do, as if they're paid to do it. I will be surprised if they get into the CL qualifying rounds simply because they're prone to losing big games. Racing and Sevilla are within striking distance, 7 games left...who will Atletico lose to!?

I will never watch the EPL because it sucks, regardless of how "good" they are. Sure, they win games, but I hate them for sucking the life from the beautiful game...a life that La Liga gives back in full.

AUPA EUROGETA!!!

Wow,what a game. I can't believe it ended like that.

And to give ammunition to the claims that the Premier League is the best in the world:
How does a relegation bound Bolton from England beat a Champions League bound Atletico Madrid from Spain? By being part of the best league in the world, that's how. ;-)

I think that this is the perfect ammunition for our debate (at the Mallorca offsude) of la liga being the best in the world. How does a mid ranked team in Spain beat the German champions? By being part of the best league in the world, that's how.

I had to read that quote about 10 times over to actually understand it. It probably could have been worded better, but as you said, it would sound better in Spanish.