Numancia 1, Barca 0, a.k.a. “I think, therefore I am….NOT!”

The discussions here are much more friendly than most places. Everyone has a different opinion on football. Different experiences, different views on players, tactics and will have their own personal preferences for players and coaches. Thats why there are so many forums and media with millions of different points.
I wouldn't trade my 15yrs of watching Barca religiously for Genis' 35. Not that I don't appreciate it and respect it immensely, but I love Barca from what I have watched and lived with them.
Visca el Barca

Well, RtUpperV: If you wish, I'll trade my years as a soci for your age. Any time :)

Just to clarify, I've never felt like you were rubbing in the 35yrs, Genis. Pls believe me when I say that I very much appreciate your perspective as a long-standing soci b/c it helps me develop my own perspective about the team and the Barca experience as a whole. I really wish I had yrs of Barca imbedded into my soul and my arse (via season tickets) too...

Messi's cut his hair now, i preffered them long but i guess it annoyes him a lot, here are some pics:
http://fcbtransfers.blogspot.c...

RtUpperV, as much as I enjoy needling Kevin saying that he rubs our noses in Titi's stats, I'm well aware that I too tend to rub yours in my 35 years as a soci and blah, blah, blah... But, apart from showing it off a little, I do it to put my comments into their proper context, that of a seasoned soci that has seen a lot of things, a perspective that, as far as I know, is rather unique here. I think that some of you will appreciate that.

On the other hand, let me tell you that I appreciate a lot, end even envy, your fresh, uncontaminated perspective on all things Barça. You know, that's something I'll never be able to feel again...

So, I think that all our perspectives have their value and complement each other. That, and above all, the fine people posting here about our Barça, is what attracts me to this site.

Good points Genis et al. I think where my thinking differs is that I never saw Henry as a Ferrari or anything remotely similar when he was brought over to join the fleet of Barca stars. Zidane, Bergkamp, etc. can talk til they're blue in the face, but the truth (in my mind) was that he was coming off a bunch of injuries and losing a step or two. Moreover, I thought (and still think) he was/is overpaid and brought over for the wrong (or not well-thought out) reasons-- when the transfer happened, I remember asking a friend, where the hell are they going to play him anyway w/ Eto'o already there?... but I blame management for these issues more than anybody else. Never in my mind did I expect him to be in the same stratosphere as Cruyff, Ronnie, Laudrup, etc for the above reasons. Besides, you have to earn legend status with a body of work of more than 1 yr. Frankly, I don't think he has enough left in his legs to become legend here. I do think that he has enough skill to make a sizable contribution to a team had clearly been built around Ronnie, Eto'o and Messi. He was never going to be the top gun in my mind. I think he did an okay job for his first year in a new league and playing out of position... at least more than "virtually nothing." I'm not sure what your definition of important or decisive is, but for instance in the Copa last year, he scored 4 goals by my tally: all important-- opener of a 3-0 w over Alcoya, the opening goal in a 1-1 draw with Sevilla, lone goal in 1-0 w over Villareal, and a goal to bring Barca up to 2-1 down v. Valencia (ultimately a 3-2 loss). As I have to go to work, I don't have time to go through the CL or La Liga campaigns.

Now, if the issue is that he isn't busting his ass on the field, then fine. I have no problem with that. I wholeheartedly agree that pulling on the Barca jersey should come with 110% effort on the field. And you all get to watch these guys much more often and closely than I get to (and lucky you), so I defer to you.

A humble opinion from this non-soci in the US w/o 35yrs of the joys and despairs of sitting in the stands of Camp Nou.

I was so sure they will be comming for messi, now what will make messi stay is only HIS DESIRE to stay, nothing else to count on. Lets see how long he can resist the tempt of gold.

no sign of Kxevin for a while!!!!!

Another quality post by Genis. I find the Prosinecki comparison to be particularly apt.

And as to the reason for my "virtually nothing" conclusion, I offer you the stats he so helpfully posted earlier:

"Who would rub our noses again and again in Titi’s 17 goals and 20 assists? To whom could then we answer that those goals were, in fact, 19, and that, anyway, only FOUR of them could be deemed important or decisive (well…), ONE in la Liga, ONE in the CL, and TWO in la Copa?"

apparently man city are going to bid for messi in january window for 100 million euros, they are saying they want to be the win the league, be in the top four best clubs etc etc....

Hey IceMel, that translator isn't worth a damn... it missed "Egg freckles" twice and "Eat Up Martha" once :)

And I could tell you a lot about the culé psyche... Remember, I'm a psychologist, I'm culé since I was born, and I've had a humble seat at the Camp Nou for 35 years. And that microcosmos that gathers at the Camp Nou doesn't lend itself to any overgeneralization. Or, yes, perhaps to one: socis don't like to squander THEIR money. You expect to receive what you pay for. If you buy a sports Audi —no, Henry was sold to us as a Ferrari, see the comments by Zidane, Bergkamp and others that I quote on a previous post— and it performs like a Yugo, you feel cheated, ashamed and even stupid... But hey, it's a Ferrari after all, so you wait, and wait, until yes, you throw the damn thing off the nearest cliff.

Weeks ago I said that, for the time being, Henry is just another Prosinecki, another Hagi, another Overmars, another Riquelme: nothing we haven't seen many times before, just another so-called star that culés will consign to oblivion. Of course he's light years away of players like Cruyff, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo or Romàrio. But he's not even fit to tie the shoelaces of Sotil, Neeskens, Krankl, Simonsen, Schuster, Lineker, Archibald, Stoitchkov, Laudrup, Rivaldo, Deco, Giuly or many other players that have delivered, and have won a place in our hearts and in Barça history (even poor Lineker, yes, that was forced to play on the right wing and was much more of a center striker than Henry).

Socis can accept that Henry is 31, that he's not in his best form, that his personal life has been complicated... What socis do not forgive to Henry, nor to any other player for that matter, is that, AT LEAST, he doesn't work his butt off for the team, that "his shirt is not sweaty", like we say here.

And, sorry, but I must repeat myself again: last season I defended Henry —more and more halfheartedly with the passing of time, I must confess— in front of my fellow culés. "Have a little patience, he's good", I used to say. But unless he begins to play regularly at least as well as he did against Wisla at the Camp Nou, I'll stop wasting more time in him.

I've better things to do.

My bad... here is correct link.

Man am I glad I found this place... I'm not trying to start a "Offside vs. Pep's Blog" argument or anything, but the negativity over there is really annoying. Too many people posting under "Anonymous" and calling other people's valid opinions "trash". A lot of us here disagree with each other on key points but we do always debate in a fair manner and never call each others opinions "garbage". It's nice to see a group of people that love the same organization and can respect each others opinions, even if they disagree with them :)

...and while we wait for another brilliant post from our Offside heroes. I've retraced back

a few posts to Isaiah's encyclopedic pre-season extravaganza. It was followed so close on the heels by the Numancia debacle that I missed it. (and Ok I'll admit it, I also want to pimp my own little gift for Genus in the comments. (I love hearing Catalan, but I'll be danged if I can read it.)

Re Henry....maybe he hasn't quite lived up to the expectations, but there seems to be a dangerous "sacrificing the goat" ritual in the Cule psyche. It happens with all fans of course, and for that matter in all areas of life. But the need to pin things on one "evil Galactico" and eventually run 'em out of town I've heard is a recurring theme at the Nou camp. Let's not drown our witches to see if they float...

here is an article relating to our henry discussion. it seems henry is on the out amongst most cules

http://www.goal.com/en/Articol...

Only available to members on their official site. thanks though

Oh shit sorry Ciaran, I didn't read all the fine print, especially the part saying you the general public can only buy tickets at the Ticket Offices. So if you are a soci then you are good, you can buy tickets online, but if not I guess you have to be there to get them. Sorry for all the posts guys.

Here you go Ciaran:

http://www.fcbarcelona.cat/web...

If you are a soci you get a 20% discount. Hope that helps :)

The official Barca website? I don't think they are on sale yet but you know the club website wouldn't screw you over..

What website would be the best to buy the barca v sporting lisbon tickets. not sure who to trust.
any ideas...?

I little bit off topic, but my buddies and i ordered some barca kits awhile back. I got a Puyol kit and i couldn't be more happy. my friends got Iniesta and Xavi.

another solution on the Eto'o/ Henry debate would be to have one play center at all the home games and one play all the away. then at the transfer window switch who plays home and away. at the end of the season the guy who did better stays. the guy who did worse goes to the Seattle Sounders (pipe dream, i know)

yeah, but he was injured his last year(s?) at Arsenal and wasn't totally healthy last year I thought too. I'll be the first to admit that Henry does not quite have the same pace as before and that he looks out of place on the left, but 17 goals and 20 assists playing out of position in a new league/team hardly equals "virtually nothing" in terms of contributions.

It's really amazing how polarizing this guy is.

"Henry is a fantastic forward and is technically exceptional. The other thing to know is that Henry is a second striker."

I seriously question the verb tense in these two sentences.

Henry has done virtually nothing at Barca to justify the use of the present tense, and many of my Arsenal-supporting acquaintances (we all have our crosses to bear) would argue that it wasn't true for his last season in red and white, either.

Via TV3: Joan Segarra, the captain of the mythical "Barça of the Five Cups" with Ramallets, Kubala, César and others, died a few hours ago at 81. He played with Barça 528 matches between 1949 y 1965.

So long, Joan!

Genis I completely agree. The reason I said to put Henry in center was simply so Kxevin has less reasons to defend him. He just isn't the same and Arsen knowing this sold him. He still is good just not what we paid for. I'm just saying that is he and Etoo knew what they each had to do they would be more effective.

About January transfers: I would imagine Brazilians or other Latin Americans (especially Argentines) would be the main target during that time simply because of what Ramzi said about the CL investiture...

i have a question... with all this talk about left wingers and our lack of strength on the left with abidal and henry compared to alves and messi on the right, does anyone think barca will try bring in a left winger in january? and if so who? arshavan, as far as i know wasnt sold so he could come, or what about capel? what are our serious options and who would you like to see come to barca?

Henry is a fantastic forward and is technically exceptional. The other thing to know is that Henry is a second striker. We play with three not two. If he played with a 6ft-something brute like Didier Drogba he would be awesome...
With us he does not.
Henry is also a good left winger. He's not Ronnie at 100%. He's not CR7. Infact he's probably not even Franck Ribery or Ricardo Quaresma but he's better than what was available at a reasonable fee over the summer.

Yes, ballbeav, that's the point I tried to make!

i meant "...bojan as a finisher..."

Genis, great point. i dont think it was as random as andrew suggested. when eto'o was gone the center forward was bojan, and to some extent, henry. they often switched up during the course of the game. but in general i remember bojan being on the point. i remember noting this last year and thinking that rijkaard must have had more faith in bojan as a finished than henry. to be fair, i remember several assists from henry to bojan, who did finish well. giovani never really played center striker, he was almost always on the right.

when henry had his time in the middle he didnt exactly light it up, and i think this is the point you are trying to make. no?

Quite an engaging debate you guys have going on here...I'm enjoying sitting on the sidelines and slowly forming more thoughts on it, but I'm going to keep quiet for now (except this)...However, come the 3rd or 4th game of the season, we should all have a better perspective on what the team is going to look like and how it's going to play under Pep.

It's definitely fun that the contributors here, be the new or "veteran", are almost always engaged in dialogue rather than monologue. Watching opinions change by accepting new points of argument, new thoughts, and differing perspectives on the same situations is amazing. Kudos to all of you for being so kind and understanding with each other.

Genis has done a wonderful job of putting my feelings about Henry into words. Bravo.

It has always pained me that I funded a miniscule portion of his transfer fee and salary personally, and that pain has never gone away.

genis: that is when gio and bojan got their call up to the first team, and we saw iniesta playing in the front 3 too. gudjohnson played a lot and ronnie had a couple of games.
so i think it was always a fairly random sampling of ronnie, henry, messi, iniesta, bojan, gio, guddie

i think what players, coaching staff and fans suffer from is an inability to critisize constructively.

people like certain players for example messi, and they put him on an untouchable pedastal and then if anybody says anything bad about him then the teeth come out. but like a few people said, messi is not perfect, no one is, and if he learnt more he would be ridiculously good.
when i am playing soocer i find that if people only reward your good plays with pats on the back or high fives or whatever and never critisize, for instance saying, you should have passed there, or something like that, then it becomes very difficult to identify your faults and consequently to improve. i am glad pep shouted at the players because they need it, but hopefully he wasnt just ranting and was rather calling each palyer on what they did wrong.

if we treat messi like he is untouchable he will come to feel untouchable and will become arrogant and complacent. everybody needs some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from time to time.
I may not agree with everything everyone says here, but that is the nature of a debate. the reason i keep coming back to this blog is that contributors like isaiah and kevin (or kxevin) arent affraid to take a shot at whoever deserves it rather than lay the blame on the same old people.
everybody loves to blame abidal, but i agree with whoever it was who said that he does nothign but run is legs off and try try try, sure he is caught out of place now and then but so was alves and so is puyol yet they arent criticised. i like abidal because he is not caught up in being a star and just gets on with the game.

Last season, when Eto'o was absent almost five months in a row due to his long injury and to the Africa Cup, who played as center forward, and why?

The fact of the matter is that TH14 is not performing like the masses expect, maybe the masses are wrong and maybe Kxevin is right, doesn't matter though he will feel the pressure, Guardiola will feel the pressure. I would love to see him as the central striker it's a win win. If he does well we all win as Barça fans if he doesn't then Kxevin can stop defending him.

Even so he is better in that position than Iniesta. I would like to see if Hleb can be effective there but if not I would rather have Henry in the front 3.

Guardiola should play Eto'o in that LW for a couple of games so that he understands what Henry has to do and what he can do to compliment it and vise-versa. Why can't Etoo play in that position can't he be just as efective and seems more elusive. Henry is bigger and stronger, can be more of a presence in the box.

i agree with kevin, messi is not the best player on the planet...yet. last year it was painfully obvious that he too often took one dribble too many or failed to make the pass. that said, he's 21, so i think he's got some time to reflect.

and i think the criticism of kevin (and his basque alter-ego kxevin) is a bit unwarranted. part of his role is to play the lightning rod, so if he says some bold things there's no need for grumbling and dissent. he remains objective even in criticism, except maybe for his unnatural fondness with toure yaya. but i also have a man crush on yaya. as an aside i wore my yaya jersey to the game in chicago and i got lots of love.

so anyway, keep on rockin kevin. you're analyses are spot on. i'm scared to death that we are going to lay eggs like last year. puyol is showing his age. henry is still hung out. eto'o can't find the ball. and of course gudjohnsen is slightly out of place in la liga

You're getting on my nerves too, Kevin... :) And, I second JC: don't you even dare to think of leaving! Whom would we rail against to, now and then? Who would rub our noses again and again in Titi's 17 goals and 20 assists? To whom could then we answer that those goals were, in fact, 19, and that, anyway, only FOUR of them could be deemed important or decisive (well...), ONE in la Liga, ONE in the CL, and TWO in la Copa?

"He's a magician with his feet. His best virtue is his speed"- Lilian Thuram.
He's a better escape artist than Houdini, yes, and quick too: he came, waved to all of us during his presentation, and we are still waiting for him to reappear...

"If you look at the whole package, there's no other like him in the whole world"- Dennis Bergkam
Neat metaphor, Dennis! The spanish word for "package" is "paquete", that also means "useless" when applied to a player...!

"The best player in the planet”- Steven Gerrard and Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Such a modesty (or poor vision). I'd trade one Ruud for three Titis...

“Ronaldinho is a especial player, but Thierry is probably the most gifted”- Zinedine Zidane
Well, sure Titi's has the gift of the gab, since he himself has been the first to rub our noses in his goals and assists...

Last season Titi moaned about Rijkaard putting him in the left wing: "I lose all my offensive references, I start 60 meters (???) away from goal, I run more than ever (???), and then I can't dribble anyone because I'm dead beat". And now that he plays right near the box, what?

*sigh*

Well, Messi one of my favourite players, but I have to say that, IMO, he has not fully proven himself to be the undoubtedly best in the world. Maybe it is because he was injury prone in the last few seasons, I don't know. However, I think that this season he will be better than ever, and will put Ronaldo and Kaka to shame.

Kxevin, without you there would be barely any debate. The reason that this is my favourite blog on the net is beacause there is always a debate going on, but we all keep it civillised and respect each others opinions. Like you said, without being respectful we would just be another message board. So have faith in your fellow cules. We would never want you to leave, because you add so much to this brilliant blog. You and Isaiah are the perfect combination, so please don't even think about it.

I do agree with you that Henry has been very hard done by. The fact is that he (statistically) was one of our top performers last season, and was played out of position. And he was adjusting to a completely different league and team style. It would be really sad to see him leave like this. He is without a doubt one of the best talents of the past decade, he just needs some time and opportunities in his own position, that's all.

And guys, don't think that Kxevin has anything against Messi. I'm sure, like all of us, Messi is the golden boy to him. But everyone has room for improvement, and everyone still has things to learn.

For those of you who may be confused by the deluge of Ramzi posts, it's because the spam filter grabbed him up and I released all of his posts so that it would stop thinking he was a malicious poster.

The spam filter doesn't seem to be capable of recognizing friend from foe...I mean, it lets all of John's Realisimo posts through! :D (John is, of course, more than welcome here as he's a very polite and intelligent member of our community; I just like taking the piss out of him. And I like using "taking the piss" statements even though I'm not sure I use them correctly)

I wonder why I was blocked so i cant send comments...i get a message saying I may be spamming, thats y i changed nage&email to send this.

Fans like players, so right, Ba and Riad are messi fans no matter what, Kxevin is henry fan no matter what either, though he try his best to be objective and i respect the attempt wheather it works or not.
The problem with both messi and iniesta is that they are still playing counting on thier instinct talent, they had no coach yet to improve their attributes, pulish them, customize them to make them the best ever! They still play the same way they performed 2 years ago, now when I see how much C.Ronaldo improved in 2 years, i can see how unlucky the other two are for not having the right coach in the past few years, for Messi to be the one and only, he need to improve his shooting attempt(he almost never shoot), he need to improve his ball distribution, and Be more a team player.
Some people may think I oppose Henry the LW after last game played, though if anyone followed my comments since 3 months up till now(i doubt anyone can be that patient with me:) they will notice the slogan i repeated again and again, "henry attributes don't fit a winger position in spain" graping some numbers last season playing against second level teams and most of the times making the numbers as a striker not a winger after eto injury will never fool me to believe whats not true, and i will stick to that belief even if he scored next game. Will anyone name some great wingers in spain having henry physics?now why not trying to find whats the common characteristics between most of the accomplished wingers in la liga? This guy need space to use his pace, he cant dribble in the crowd, hadn't done it in barcelona, neither in arsenal, this guy dont cross balls (though i am not sure whom he will cross to). I am not against henry, I believe he can offer a lot as a striker, and i believe he can actualy be one of the answers AS A STRIKER against teams with 10 men in the box!he has the physics needed to create space for himself and others, and he is so smart the way he move, the way he place shots, the way he shake defence when he is in front. he sent a direct message before the season start "this season i will be more selfish and try to score more", he proved the first part in the first game "he proved being selfish in two balls that may have changed the game" but to score, he either need to count on some easy games where he can score twice or more so he make some numbers (as last season) or pepe better start to use him as a striker.
Xavi played one bad game, but proved his worth in his position in a way that no one can doubt, messi the same, iniesta is a great asset in many places and he is young enough to customize his style and improve for the best of the team, henry?never played good as a winger and time is not on his side, thats why I cant put them all in the same basket. Henry the striker is a possible success, as a winger is a waste of time and will be confirmed sooner or later.

Kxevin, The barca offside won't be the same without you, don't you even dare think about leaving :)
Fans who are natives or socio's in your case, always think about Club first then the players. you guys are the true fans IMO...

Fans like players, so right, Ba and Riad are messi fans no matter what, Kxevin is henry fan no matter what either, though he try his best to be objective and i respect the attempt wheather it works or not.
The problem with both messi and iniesta is that they are still playing counting on thier instinct talent, they had no coach yet to improve their attributes, pulish them, customize them to make them the best ever! They still play the same way they performed 2 years ago, now when I see how much C.Ronaldo improved in 2 years, i can see how unlucky the other two are for not having the right coach in the past few years, for Messi to be the one and only, he need to improve his shooting attempt(he almost never shoot), he need to improve his ball distribution, and Be more a team player.
Some people may think I oppose Henry the LW after last game played, though if anyone followed my comments since 3 months up till now(i doubt anyone can be that patient with me:) they will notice the slogan i repeated again and again, "henry attributes don't fit a winger position in spain" graping some numbers last season playing against second level teams and most of the times making the numbers as a striker not a winger after eto injury will never fool me to believe whats not true, and i will stick to that belief even if he scored next game. Will anyone name some great wingers in spain having henry physics?now why not trying to find whats the common characteristics between most of the accomplished wingers in la liga? This guy need space to use his pace, he cant dribble in the crowd, hadn't done it in barcelona, neither in arsenal, this guy dont cross balls (though i am not sure whom he will cross to). I am not against henry, I believe he can offer a lot as a striker, and i believe he can actualy be one of the answers AS A STRIKER against teams with 10 men in the box!he has the physics needed to create space for himself and others, and he is so smart the way he move, the way he place shots, the way he shake defence when he is in front. he sent a direct message before the season start "this season i will be more selfish and try to score more", he proved the first part in the first game "he proved being selfish in two balls that may have changed the game" but to score, he either need to count on some easy games where he can score twice or more so he make some numbers (as last season) or pepe better start to use him as a striker.
Xavi played one bad game, but proved his worth in his position in a way that no one can doubt, messi the same, iniesta is a great asset in many places and he is young enough to customize his style and improve for the best of the team, henry?never played good as a winger and time is not on his side, thats why I cant put them all in the same basket. Henry the striker is a possible success, as a winger is a waste of time and will be confirmed sooner or later.

Riad, I'm a big fan of Barca. And if you look at the match ratings above, you will see the reflection of my belief that this was a team loss. Nobody did what they were supposed to except for Valdes, who was the innocent bystander to the back line cock-up.

Fans love players. That's fine. I love the team. If selling any of them, up to and including Messi will make the team better, I'm on board. Team over any player.

Look for comments from Messi's Argentina coach about the player's deficiencies. It isn't just me. You can watch, week after week, his predictability and limited repetoire. He makes it easy for defenses to play him. I hate to keep returning to the Michael Jordan analogy, but when Jordan just put his head down and drove the lane, he became easy to defend. When he developed a jump shot, he became unstoppable. When he learned to pass and play defense, he became the best player alive. No debate, even by peers.

Likewise, if Messi improves his game, he will be the best player in the world, without question. Right now it's a matter of fan debate. C. Ronaldo fans will say that he is the best. Van Nistelrooy fans will say that he is the best, because fans love their beloved. If Messi does what his Argentina coach has suggested, he will be the best, without question. And all everyone will be able to do is bow down in his presence.

Have a look at Guardiola's post-match comments. His tactics weren't executed by the players. He singled out Xavi, Messi and Iniesta particularly as not having gotten with the program. I'm betting he called them out in the locker room after the match, as well. Word is he let the players have it for that display. He should have.

But Messi drifted to the middle of his own volition. Guardiola didn't move him there.

Krkic will be good. He isn't ready for prime-time. Not yet. Yaya is one of the best defensive mids in the world. If we need him to shoot, we have problems.

BA, don't rip on Henry for being a left winger. Messi is playing on the right. It's the striker's responsibility to take advantage of those opportunities created by a player's runs. Messi just doesn't pass to Henry all that often. Their positions on the pitch limit their interaction. It's why Eto'o gets so many balls from Messi. He's right there. I just don't think Henry knows what the heck to do, and damage is being done to player and team.

No player should try to do everything himself. If the other players aren't stepping up, get in their faces. Be a team leader. That's my one quibble about Puyol. Grab a guy by the shirt front and put him where you know he ought to be. But doing everything yourself isn't a virtue, whether born of seeming necessity or not. It just turns teammates into spectators.

But fear not, everyone. Rumor is that the suddenly-flush Man City is going to make a run at Henry in January, with an offer he can't refuse. He should accept it, so that the team can find a traditional left winger (who won't toss in 17 goals/20 assists, I should add), and then fans can find someone else to blame for losses. No player deserves what he's getting.

Yes, that includes Gudjohnsen, who is a good player, just not in the Liga. Word. :D

More importantly, we need to be able to have discourse here in a civil and civilized manner. Riad, it's isn't and should never be about getting on anyone's nerves. That leads to hostility, then this very nice space becomes just another message board, with flames and ugliness. If I'm to be the catalyst for that sort of thing, I'll leave, with no hard feelings and Isaiah's blessing, no harm no foul.

Kxevin. Now you got on my nerves. I have been reading all your posts about not starting messi and all, but then you come say he is not the best; well, my friend that is a different story. I bet you think that your Tours is better; Don't you. I also notice that you are a big fond of Bojan. Messi is way better than all of them and is one of the best two players in the world if not the best by far. I am just gonna say one of the two even though I am fully convinced he is the only one. Tactics in the last game were the wrong issue. When you play messi in the middle rather than the right wing in front of 5 guys defending you; well , no one can do much even Maradona himself. Shooting was the only key and Guardiola's tactics were way off against such defence and was best illustrated with messi's new position. Ok, so Guardiola said shoot, and guess who is shooting now; Toure. God please don't shoot. All this season and last season not one shot on target. Even when he scored his only goal with a wide open goal open; he almost missed too. Abidal should be sacked leaving his man unmarked. No one came with anything special, not even Xavi, and still you are pointing the finger on the only one who cam with some flare which is messi.
Also your ratings are way off. Messi is easily 7 and the best player on the pitch and it's not his fault if he helps in providing couple chances in a very well packed defence and the Bojan, Eto waste them.

I wonder why When I comment using my previous name/email, it say that I am detected spamming and my comment will not be published or something

if Guardiola wants to send a message, take off Samuel Eto'o for a second-stringer, not somebody who works his ass off, doesn't complain, and shows up to play every matchday. regardless of talent, you don't punish people who do that over people who bitch and pout and make things more difficult for the squad.

Messi's seeming tactical problems come from the squad's inadequacies. too often, he HAS to do it all himself. there were a dozen games last season where it seemed like nobody showed up to play but Messi and maybe Iniesta. i don't think it's arrogance either; he's certainly capable of running through defenses all by himself until someone gets open.

the problem is, our other forwards are on walkabout or aren't jogging into the open spaces he creates. Eto'o is easily the better at making the most of Messi's ability to pull defenders, but part of my argument for bringing in Arshavin is that he has a knack of being in the right place at the right time to make something happen. Henry literally just stands around watching little Leo slalom through 3 or 4 challenges instead of making a run or getting into a good position. i could count on 1 hand the number of times Messi has linked with Henry and that Henry has finished, and it's not through Messi's lack of providing ability. part of what makes him the best player in the world is his passing vision. Henry and, to a far lesser extent but still noticeably, Eto'o haven't quite figured out how to make the best of that yet.

Messi is going to be at his best this season if we can put him on the same side as Alves and get someone to cover the open hole on the right side, but Messi needs to be playing wide and towards the edge of the box, not centrally as he was in the game against Numancia for whatever reason. in the center he compacted the defense like a herd, not spreading them out by fading right and exchanging 1-2's with Dani around the edge of the box.

i agree about Henry, as i said earlier. give him a shot where he wants, and if he doesn't pan out sell him to whoever will take him and bring in a REAL left winger. right now i'd swap him for Arshavin in a heartbeat.

RtUpperV, Alves' crosses aren't effective because we a) don't have anybody in the box or b) when somebody is in the box it's Messi, who is functionally headless because of his height.

Not bad, Ciaran. Not bad. I still like Caceres over Puyol, as long as we're getting crazy, because of his pace. With us pushing up, the counter is going to be the only way teams are hitting us for goals these days. Puyol is caught scrambling too much. He's tired. Some rest would do him good.

And I would start Pedro over Messi for the same reason Phil Jackson in that Bulls game put Bobby Hansen in over Michael Jordan. Because a coach has to send a message, and sometimes that message is, "Look how hard those guys are working, and they don't have your talent. Now what do you want to do?" He's easy enough to sub in if his mind is right.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. :D

And I'm going to blaspheme some more. Messi isn't the best player on the planet. He doesn't move well without the ball, and he doesn't quite know when to pass because he doesn't keep his head up enough when he has the ball, because he's trying to dribble through three defenders. He also stops himself by trying to do the impossible all the time. I know that his TV commercial says that's cool, but it isn't on the pitch, all the time. Sometimes, all he has to do is take the pass, watch the defense panic, then lay the ball off to an open teammate. Remember, Jordan didn't become the best until he learned to pass and play defense.

Messi has the talent to become the best player on the planet, without question. And I'm extremely happy that he's ours instead of someone else's. He's certainly in the Top 5 right now. Imagine if he improved on his weaknesses how unplayable he'd be. Play him to attack, he passes. Play him to pass, he attacks. He'd be crazy. Just crazy.

Finally, play Henry where he's supposed to be. If he is still below par, then we know. Get him out. It's that simple. My support of Henry is based in fairness. If he's an impediment to the club when placed in a position to do his best, he should leave. And I bet he won't pout or dig in his heels, either. It's the club above all.

Finally, had you asked him, before this transfer business if he'd wanted to come here to play left wing, he'd probably have taken a pass. He played left wing early in his career, and stank out the joint then, as well. He's better there now, but still a poor fit.

oh yeah, anyone know where I can catch a replay/stream of the Numancia match? I'd first need to get over the heartburn and nausea induced by the Wisla 2nd leg I just watched, but nevertheless...

I didn't get to see the Numancia match as work is cramping my style, but it sounds like I may have gouged my eyes out had I watched it. I'm an unabashed Henry advocate and feel like some of you above me that playing him on the left is 1) the coach's choice (b/c Eto'o couldn't) and 2) not an easy transition for him-- he needs space to run to and being cramped on the left I think limits him. Now that being said, this doesn't totally absolve him of guilt (for instance, I wrote before that he half-asses when he checks back). I'd personally favor a 4-4-2 to give both Henry and Eto'o more space up front (and I'd pray even harder every night that they play well together). Then Messi Xavi Toure Iniesta. I'm not sold with Iniesta on the left but somebody has to step up and find a way to make Abidal and Henry (or whoever is on the left) more useful. I totally disagree with Pique in the back as I think he gives up the ball more than he possesses it. His services from the back are sorely lacking in class. I'm not as sold on Alves as I used to be since his crosses don't seem that effective lately.

That being said, I don't see any need to panic just yet. A lot of teams seem to be struggling to find themselves, ourselves included. We just need to channel the good mojo from games like Wisla at home and take it on the road too.

i'm still not convinced as yawls about Hleb. he gave the ball away a ton in this last game, didn't he?

Ciaran selection is realistic, And it has a good chance to be named for next match, may be caceres for abidal, so Alves can run forward leaving caceres pique and payol behind

Ciaran I like the line up you posted there, I would like to see Caceres out there though, maybe in place of Pique. Bring Henry or Bojan on as a sub for Eto'o if he's not effective, and Iniesta in for Toure or Keita if the game is not as physical as expected with those 2 in the starting line up.

At the same time I would like to see Henry get a shot to start in the middle instead of Eto'o. Then if HE is not effective replace with Eto'o or Bojan.

Either way I want to see Hleb get some playing time out there.

Ciaran's lineup is spot-on.

Ciaran...thats a good selection, and I think it has a good chance to be the one pepe will use next game, unless is he choose caceres for abidal.

what about playing eto'o and henry together up front with messi and hleb or iniesta on the wings?

Some people may think I oppose Henry the LW after last game played, though if anyone followed my comments since 3 months up till now(i doubt anyone can be that patient with me:) they will notice the slogan i repeated again and again, "henry attributes don't fit a winger position in spain" graping some numbers last season playing against second level teams and most of the times making the numbers as a striker not a winger after eto injury will never fool me to believe whats not true, and i will stick to that belief even if he scored next game. Will anyone name some great wingers in spain having henry physics?now why not trying to find whats the common characteristics between most of the accomplished wingers in la liga? This guy need space to use his pace, he cant dribble in the crowd, hadn't done it in barcelona, neither in arsenal, this guy dont cross balls (though i am not sure whom he will cross to). I am not against henry, I believe he can offer a lot as a striker, and i believe he can actualy be one of the answers AS A STRIKER against teams with 10 men in the box!he has the physics needed to create space for himself and others, and he is so smart the way he move, the way he place shots, the way he shake defence when he is in front. he sent a direct message before the season start "this season i will be more selfish and try to score more", he proved the first part in the first game "he proved being selfish in two balls that may have changed the game" but to score, he either need to count on some easy games where he can score twice or more so he make some numbers (as last season) or pepe better start to use him as a striker.
Xavi played one bad game, but proved his worth in his position in a way that no one can doubt, messi the same, iniesta is a great asset in many places and he is young enough to customize his style and improve for the best of the team, henry?never played good as a winger and time is not on his side, thats why I cant put them all in the same basket. Henry the striker is a possible success, as a winger is a waste of time and will be confirmed sooner or later.

Sorry Kxevin, a fit Messi starts. Wherever you want to start him but he has to be there. My starting line-up is somewhat different to yours...
Valdes
Alves Pique Puyol Abidal
Xavi Toure Keita
Messi Eto'o Hleb
Pinto Caceres Sylvinho Marquez Iniesta Bojan Henry on the bench.
Dani gets his freedom with Pique better able to cover. A solid midfield with structure and more freedom for Xavi to do his stuff. Quick ball movement going forward and the frontline would be difficult to mark.
And from the bench we have options. Sylvinho for Abidal gives us more width on the left. Iniesta can sub in for anyone of the front 6 depending on what we need at that point in the game. Henry can sub for anyone of the front 3 and move others around and Bojan gives us a little fox-in-the-box.
I'd be happy to give that line-up a few games

trying to convince you Kxevin is futile. I hope Guardiola is not as adventureous. For those who can read Spanish there is an awesome post at www.cule100x100.blogspot.com that sums it up almost as well as Kevins post. But not as funny.

Kxevin,

your lineup is ok... but why on God's green fucking Earth would you consider playing Pedro over Messi? Messi is the best player on the planet. putting him on the bench in place of a guy who last season was in the 4th division seems beyond absurd. unless you just want to give him ample time to recover from the Olympics?

John, I know that you're drooling over the back line. I think they would rip. Give 'em some practice time and it would be fine. They've done this footie thing before, after all. They could even (shudder) talk to each other, something Abidal, Marquez and Puyol didn't seem to do.

And hats off to your guys. Nice comeback win v Valencia with 9 men, no less. All credit, whomever was or wasn't there. It still pains me to say it. So there. :D

I just don't think Valencia or Atleti are the business this year, though. Not in the long run. But this is definitely going to be a loooong season. How are you folks dealing with the Robinho sale?

And I don't think that my starting XI is as radical as everyone thinks. To repeat, with current starters marked with an (i) for incumbent:

Valdes (i), Alves (i), Caceres, Pique, Abidal (i), Yaya (i), Keita, Xavi (i), Pedro, Hleb, Eto’o (i). Subs are Messi, Henry, Iniesta.

I think they'd do alright. If not, subbing is easy. Swap Puyol for Henry if necessary, to stabilize the back. Don't think you'd need to, though.

Much respect, Genis, but I could build a case similar to that being made against Henry against many other players in the starting XI.

You're right. Henry arrived with immense expectations. I'll be the first to tell you they aren't being lived up to. Not even close. But can they be? I think he does work hard, I think he tries. He does pout at times, you're right. No question. Others do as well.

The biggest problems with Henry are expectation+salary=disgruntled socis. I think that Henry is wrestling with the burden of expectations more than the reality of his performance. If you look at his stats from last season (via ESPN Soccernet), he nabbed 17 goals and 20 assists. Not too shabby.

That's 17 more assists than his previous four years at Arsenal. For us, it took him 54 fewer shots to score only one less goal than he did his last year at Arsenal.

Now prior to that, if he didn't score 30 goals in a season, it was a catastrophe. That's the Henry that people thought we were getting. That's the Henry that I thought we were getting, as I clapped my hands with glee.

Instead, we got a guy learning to play left wing, and usually not doing a very good job of it. That's definitely true. As I've said before, play him where he can do what we're expecting him to do, or sell him. It's just that simple.

He's the highest-paid player on the side. He still has the biggest burden of expectations. But where he is playing, it is impossible for him to meet said expectations. So he's kind of screwed. He'll be able to make do, but he's never going to be a left winger.

I, like you but for different reasons, wonder how long we'll continue at the failed experiment.

And here's two smileys for you. :D :D

And there's always the argument of playing Eto'o for league matches and then swapping in Henry for Champions League matches. Though they both obviously want to be starters ALL the time.

i hate to say this, but i hope Samuel Eto'o gets injured for a few weeks. i want to see Henry played up front in his "ideal" position. if he doesn't make the grade, i'd be all for ditching him entirely and selling him to whoever wants him in the winter. but i'm sympathetic towards him for always being played out of a position he's always had and excelled at, then disparaged because he doesn't play well. that doesn't excuse his pouting and laziness on the pitch, but maybe does his results. try him where he wants to be played, assuage his ego, and see what happens. if he still can't play, he's useless. if he can, then we have some choices to make.

Dang we all have just seen a different side of Genis. Ouch. I too have been really patient with him and I want him to succceed but there is somthing there that is not right. His runs when he makes them are half-hearted it seems. But I do hope he does better. Still though the best should play who ever those may be. No drastic changes cause of 1 game.

You wonder why certain players are being singled out, Kevin? Why everybody (and that means almost everybody in the Barça world) is picking on Henry? Well, certainly there must be some reason, don't you think? Or perhaps you're like that proverbial driver that thinks that everybody else is driving in the wrong direction? I'm sorry to tell you, but if Henry doesn't begin to excel in 3-5 matches, consider him doomed. And, yes, no one is crying for Alves’ scalp for being out of position and giving up the ball at midfield, but if that is going to be the rule instead of an exception, don't think that he'll come out of it well. You say that people dislike certain players, and you're right. But I can tell you, knowing well what I'm talking about, that people has been strangely patient with Henry. I've told that before: until now, the socis have felt sorely disappointed with him, sad at seeing what could have been and still is not. Until now, those feelings have led to a rather passive stance. But I feel that a strong sense of outrage is beginning to mount and, if that continues, there will be only one end: a public and very vocal condemnation by the whole Camp Nou.

And I, like many others, don't wish to see those things. Like many others, I wish that Henry begins to try hard, to work hard, to show some SPIRIT: then we could forgive him. But we won't if he doesn't attempt to make more than a couple of dribblings, if continues standing offside by three meters into the box forcing Xavi to abort a good vertical pass, or if, being in the mid of the pitch, he doesn't at least attempt to follow his marker, just half a meter away, when he begins an attack with the ball at his feet and with no one in front to stop him...

Mmmm... No smileys today. I must feel a little pissed off.

From there.

I love Kxevin's suggestion for the back four. 3 out of 4 of them just arrived at the club, and have little or no history playing together. (The two central defenders, both twenty-one years old, and hav never started a real game for the club!) And you think Puyol, Marquez and Abidal had communication problems? I'd love to see the mad scramble that back line would produce. Probably something close to Brownian motion. I got to give it to Kxev, though, he knows how to spark a debate!

I also find it comical how all of the Madridistas (myself included) are saying 'Well at least Barcelona lost' and the cules 'At least Madrid lost.' In the meantime, if any of you caught Valencia's match (who were playing sans Timo, Joaquin and Capdevilla - a point I expect Kxevin will latch on to), or watched the Atletico highlights, there might be some real competition for the title this year. Let's hope so, at least.

But, though it needs not be repeated: This was week one. So, you know.

i also dont necessarily think that the "playing the subs instead of the stars" idea needs to be implemented in the next match. like it was said above, its a good concept but the timing might not be great.

what about rotating eto'o and henry? all you read everywhere is about henry not being happy on the left, i guess that pep plays him there for a reason though. i think henry has a lot to give but perhaps he should play centrally.

what if henry and eto'o played upfront in a 4-4-2 with the two attacking wingers playing forward but behind the strikers. that could be messi and hleb or iniesta, with yaya, xavi or keita in the middle and the usual defense, perhaps rotating pique and caceres now and then.

its just an idea and i am definitly no expert, but i have been thinking, and i would liek to hear what you guys think.

Exactly my point kxevin. Why single out even three players and and say they should be benched now?

One more thing. Everybody, and I mean everybody, is picking on Henry. I don't understand it. Yes, he played poorly. So did everyone. I'd put Hleb in for Iniesta or Xavi before Henry.

Right now, here's what happens: We bring the ball up, a few passes come, and Henry gets the ball way out wide. Defenses say "Holy crap! That guy ain't gonna beat us," and two or three guys come over to shut him down. He does one of his two moves, sometimes gets around them, to either pass or shoot.

What if, when he got the ball and drew defenders, players rushed that side of the box to create space and passing options? Eto'o did that in preseason, and got a series of great setups from Henry. In-season, so far, that didn't happen.

I don't mind that people dislike certain players. That's the nature of being a fan. But the fair person in me wonders why certain players are being singled out. Nobody is crying for Alves' scalp for being out of position and giving up the ball at midfield, which led directly to the goal. No, somehow it's Abidal's fault, or Valdes sucks.

Win as a team, lose as a team. Six different players didn't do their jobs on that goal: Alves (gave it up), Puyol (cover Alves' man), Marquez (yell "mine" and head away the cross), Abidal (stay on your man), Yaya (make sure nobody leaks from the midfield), Iniesta (track back on defense....you could see him entering the picture, too late to stop the shot).

Team goal, team loss.

Kxevin I don't think your crazy at all. I will reiterate, I just don't think the next match is the right time. I bet though that Guardiola is down like that and will make some changes and I hope one is Hleb. Kxevin I just think your wrong in the timing of it not in the concept. But then again I think you know more than me, hence the blog and all. Much respect.

Andrew no one is against making changes, i don't even call the players who didn't play in the first game as substitutes, actually football is going more and more toward rotations that make the word "substitute" out of date. And certainly I believe in those called substitutes here, If you follow my comments on pep blog, sometimes I was the only one who defended kieta and hleb transfers, and in my own blog you can notice in my team analysis that I supported kieta transfer more than anything i did, I don't mind changes, but i don't want changes to be a "reaction", I want it to be based on clear vision based on what pepe feel he want, not on what he don't want. If Kxevin selection was the best in training then let them play, but pepe has to select from the whole squad without excluding those who played the first game, thats what I am trying to explain, dont change just for the sake of changing, or to try, u dont try during the season, that will make u lose the pace, and thats the worst thing to happen for a team seeking titles, try in training, preseason, and may be in Spanish cup, or when the team score twice in the game, then try pedro for 30 minutes, try hleb on the right, try to ask yaya to run into the box when the team work on crosses- c if he can cover the absence of big striker being tall and have good headings, try anything when you secure a result, but u don't start the game trying.
Again there is a deference between intentions and abilities, I will be eager to play with barcelona next game, but that will not make me good for it (ok thats a little bit sarcastic) each and every young player will be excited to play, and if he don't feel he is ready then he is not good enough and never will be, still coaches always deal carefully with green players, one of the reasons Giovani talent had a knock is that he was not ready, and Barcelona fans are not known being understanding or patient, if he lost two balls in a raw they will start to murmur, and he will start to feel his knees flicking , if the fans waived white against payol, xavi or henry, those experienced players can understand it, but if the scenario of fans reaction toward gio repeated against pedro the scenario will go to the same end, loosing the boy.

Regarding Robinho, well with the new board in man city, i am more worried that they may try to rub barca players and not the opposite. Chelsea is an average team financially compared to new man city, so I believe Robinho is there to stay.

Andrew, I don't think that anyone is saying that benching players is a bad thing. I certainly am
not. The question is wether it should be the next match or the one after forthat matter. Besides everyone knows that evolution is bogus. :-) So is creationism by the way. Jk no quiero empesar polemica I don't want to start a debate.

Regarding Robinho, I doubt Barça will bid for him at any point. He doesn't seem to be the kind of player that Guardiola would like. Considering hid character, and what he did to the EE, even if they did deserve it. Besides if City sells it will be for crazy money. Honestly it was a bad move for him, bad for EE good for us. Hehehe

First, Oh, Messi was drifing of his own volition. Guardiola said as much, post-match, that his drifting off-plot was one of the many problems with the attack.

With the Wisla game, they were trying. You could see that they were making an effort not to be the same team. I was also giving them credit for the lack of motivation that comes from heading into a two-legged tie with a 4-0 lead. It's tough to find the juice sometimes, and with the league starting, you can see them taking sort of a working vacation. Numancia was very different. That match counted.

I don't understand why sitting players is such a radical concept. It's done by some coaches all the time as a motivational tool. If your job is guaranteed, what does it matter how well or poorly you play? Yes, you have professional pride, but is that what takes you through a match such as Numancia? It's supposed to, but it didn't.

If the specter of sitting rears its head, are you different then? Formula One drivers find untapped reserves of pace when another driver tests for the team. It happens.

We don't have an attacking Plan B. We only have effort, passing, movement and attacking the box. If the starters don't want to do it, perhaps the other guys do.

And I think that after one match is the perfect time to send the message. Why wait for bad habits to become ingrained? What harm does it do to sit guys? If the experiment isn't working, make selected subs. But the starters aren't sacred. No player is....or no player should be. Winning and excellent play is the goal.

Numancia should have been destroyed. When our lethargic dithering gave them hope, it was all over but the shouting, once they scored. We don't know how to play against 9 men back, despite having seen it time and again. We just piffle at "anti-football" from behind our upturned noses. The next team we are playing takes notes, there's more "anti-football," and the losses mount.

If a midfielder or two charged the box to create options, if positive passing was on tap it would be one thing. That didn't happen, and that, short of having that classic central striker to go over the top, is about the only way to beat defense in depth. Numancia had no interest in attacking, so what's the harm?

Instead, the same players did the same things with the same result.

Everybody thinks I'm crazy. I'm okay with that. Have been for a long time. :D

just another thought... could barca bid for robinho in the january window? now he is no longer a madrid player, would this violate the contract between barca and madrid? he would be perfect for our left side. or should i keep on dreaming?

in evolutionary biology there is a term called paralell evolution. bear with me here. what it refers to is two seperate animals or species in different places like continents, facing similar adaptive pressures, say for example that they need to reach their food which is up in a tree. what often happens is that both animals will develop a similar trait such as the ability to climb. these animals very well may not be related or anything, but similar pressures call for similar adaptions to be made.

i mention this because it is like the barca team and what kevin was saying. if you play the same team, in the same positions against more or less the same oppositions who all know to just sit back and crowd the box and wait for the counterstrike, then you will be seeing the same results as we did under rijkaard.

something does need to change, you cant just rely on players playing harder or with a better work ethic than last season. i mean, in reality, it wasnt like they werent trying last season. work ethic alone wont win matches, the players need some variation, they need to have plan B's and C's in order to counter against teams who sit back or to deal with other trickery by opponents or else everyone will just crowd the box when we play.

i disagree that benchng players wont do anything, like kevin said those subs like pedro are desperate to impress and give hleb a start instead of henry. although, i dont think we will have the same problem at home matches, it seems to be when we play away at "smaller" fields. perhaps the camp nou is just too big and so whenever we travel we find it hard to adjust. we should always train for away games at the mini stadi (spelling?).

Kxevin, I agree that sometimes starters need to be benched. I agree that this can motivate them to play better as is the case many times with Quaterbacks with American Football. However now is not the time to do it. If we base such a decision off one game than we need to do the same with all players Dani and YaYa included. What are we left with? If the same thing happens next game or on away games than sure change it up a beat. But you can't just change starting players every game or even After every loss, why? Consistency, trust, management. Guardiola has to understand what caused what happened, I trust he did already, intruct the players, admonish them on how to avoid it. If a player continues to fail then make them learn by sitting them. But not after one game.
Why did you not suggest this after the Wisla game?
Because they had already sealed the deal?
Because Messi wasn't there?
I hope not.

note the word "might" in my previous post -- i still like henry starting, with bojan as a sub, but i could certainly be persuaded (by henry's poor performances) to think otherwise.

no problem with the long comments ramzi, IMO, you are being respectful and that's the key bit.

also, i agree, right now i am not a fan of experimenting and rotations, i am in favor of using the same starting 11 and letting them gel. i know, kevin has a point, it is pretty much the same team as last year, BUT with two important exceptions, and this is why they still need time:

1. Alves, much more than a right back, a member of the offense, his abilities do need time to merge/meld into what is already there, and he and messi need to play more together. they only played a couple games together in preseason, against weak opponents.

2. new coach. the players are the same, but the coach is new, so there still is time needed for chemistry under the new regiment and rhythm that pep is imposing. again, despite the familiar faces, pep is telling them new things, their roles might be slightly shifted, plus we have not had a consistent team since May, with all on international duty, etc etc, -- we need to give our starting 11 time. the only thing i might change is Henry.

Kxevin I understand your approach but i am aware of the consiquences that may lead to an empty cycle that will cause a big mess!be patient with me for a minute and lets c the other side of the coin, what if the substitutes get skrewed?lets for one moment forget about the "perfect scenario"that may happen if your suggestion worked(and i dont want to evaluate that possibility)...What if Caceres and pique proved not ready yet?- not ready doesnt mean he is not good-and what if pedro collapsed under pressure (he is good but even messi needed to be inserted gradualy/NOTE:even wenger is patient with Ramsey-his new talent)?based on ur criteria Kevin if they failed to perform"we throw them all to the bench",beside the ones u benched already?and then what?calling barca athletic for next game?if they failed and u kept them, the first selection will take it personal, if they failed and u started with Numancia selection again then those players scored an early point against their coach, will he then make a defferent combination?keep messing up with selection based on results?I am aware of how educated u r in fotball or else i wouldnt bother myself commenting, but in football that approach never work.
if the team "That team" lose everyone will say "guariola is a confused coach!every game he use defferent selection!" and they will be right...what u need is to make the team watch the game and learn lessons and play more and more games together to gain chemistry and understanding...if the players are exhusted already, then barcelona is in a BIG TROUBLE, let me remind u, they were not the only players having long summer, they had their vacation to refresh and obviously they will have the RIGHT TIME to be benched.
of course u sign new players to use them, but u pick ur team based on the following game conditions, not based only on the ratings of the previous game, u dont bench valdes if next game he made a stupid mistake. of course you have to use the players u sign but again right timing is the key; and NO, hooking huge responsibilities on pedro without warming him up for that is not smart at all regardless of how talanted he is. pepe will use him when he is ready, if he is a need in pepe project then again barcelona is in big trouble, young players r usualy considered understudy, a project to be polished for future, not a survivor.
what caused troubles for Rijkaard is mostly his weak reading of the game, the way he squeeze himself to the bench corner thinking"hell let the game end, i cant handle being under the lights anymore,hide me mom", and being the players coach and lack of depth in the squad and lot of other things, so thats a defferent case.

One thing is right, u need to be adventurious in football, but not thru placing a bullet in ur head.

Sorry for long comments and for causing u headache, its ur blog after all, and I will be noisy as long as i am welcomed.

Messi was being played in the center, not on the right wing where he should have been playing. i doubt he was doing that of his own volition. playing him on the wing stretches the defense and gives us space in the middle. that didn't happen, Messi was coming at them from the center, so they just bunched up like a herd of bison being circled by wolves and nothing could get through. our inability to play wide and create space is what lost us the game, apart from individually bad performances.

And what if the subistitutes get skrewed?lets for one moment forget about the "perfect scenario"...What if Caceres and pique proved not ready yet?and what if pedro collapsed under pressure (he is good but even messi needed to be inserted gradualy/NOTE:even wenger is patient with Ramsey-his new talent)?based on ur criteria Kevin "we throw them all to the bench"beside the ones u benched already?and then what?calling barca athletic for next game?if the team loose everyone will say "guariola is a confused coach!every game he use defferent selection!" and they will be right...what u need is to make the original selection watch the game and learn lessons and play more and more games together to gain chemistry and understanding...if the players are exhusted already, then barcelona is in a BIG TROUBLE, let me remind u, they were not the only players having long summer, they had their vacation to refresh and obviously they will have the RIGHT TIME to be benched.
of course u sign new players to use them, but again right timing is the key and NO hooking huge responsibilitied on pedro without warming him up for that is not smart at all regardless of how talanted he is.
what caused troubles for Rijkaard is mostly his weak reading of the game, the way he squeeze himself to the bench corner thinking"hell let the game end, i cant handle being under the lights anymore,hide me mom", and being the players coach and lack of depth in the squad and lot of other things, so thats a defferent case.

One thing is right, u need to be adventurious in football, but not thru placing a bullet in ur head.

No, my emotions are calm. I think that if you run out what is essentially the same starting lineup that sank Rijkaard, and put that lineup under pressure, you are going to get the same play that sank Rijkaard.

So Messi went on walkabout, stabbing balls here and there, Iniesta was a possession black hole and Xavi was king of the lateral move. Henry was pouting over on left wing because after being told he would be the centre forward by Guardiola, there he is on the left, yet again. So sit them. All. Sometimes you have to sit guys to have them be able to see the game.

Puyol has lost a step, and he's tired from the Euro/summer tour double. The best thing for him would be to pick up a knock or something and get a couple weeks off. And really, what's wrong a back line of Alves, Caceres, Pique and Abidal? There's height, pace galore, backbone in the form of Caceres, and enough speed to fill gaps. Is it daring? Yep.

Yes, Ramzi, I'm very aware that you can't sub players in and out as you can with American basketball. I know SOMETHING about the game. Read the comment more carefully. I was referring to the power of the substitute, the player who would kill to get into the lineup and play his heart out when he was in it. There was also value in the starters being able to watch the game and see just how hard those guys were playing.

Numancia got to almost every 50/50 ball first, a sign of work ethic and freshness. Admittedly, it's been a long summer for the lads, with the tour, Olympics, Euro and now Internationals. So get them some rest. What better way than using them as subs?

I will also suggest that the starters need to not be so complacent. They know they are going to be chosen. Where's the pressure on them? Why can't Hleb start over Xavi or Iniesta? Why can't Pedro start? If they're talented enough to be on the first team, they're talented enough to play there, right? Hleb was good enough for Arsenal's starting XI. He's definitely good enough for ours. Same for Keita.

How are you going to be able to evaluate what new guys can do if you don't play them? At home, there is a psychological buttressing that just isn't there on the road. Being at home makes any player better. So yes, at home is the perfect time to debut new players.

This club has been too conservative for too long. When I saw the starting lineup and watched the first ten minutes of the match, I was pretty sure it was going to be a draw or loss. Unfortunately, I was right.

Apparently Guardiola let the players have it after the match, and he should have. Work ethic is at the core of his philosophy, but he also demands that the players respect the system. They didn't. They played the Rijkaard system, left on their own, with the same effect as last year.

Conservative is sometimes a euphemism for chicken. We backed out of every truly interesting potential transfer this winter, we backed down from Eto'o. We're conservative to the core. I wish we weren't.

I agree with you Ramzi, I don't think that the next game, be it at home or away is the right time to make a drastic change like putting in Pedro for Messi or Bojan for Eto'o (though Hleb for Henry isn't so bad). Believe me Guardiola will be the first to bench any star If he considers it appropriate. But if you remember Kxevin Guardiola said at the beggening of his rein that he could understand a bad game bit what he would not permit is bad work ethic. I don't think that's what we saw on Sunday if it is than expect some changes from the boss. But I think that Kevin's alter-ego (Kxevin) is letting his emotions get the best of him something Kevin would never allow :-) jk.

Kevin...this is not Basketball man "where u can substitute and change squads again and again along the game"...and its not football"the american one", what u mentioned about changing the selection will not work in football "soccer", of course some changes needed, but the way u suggested it remind me or arab gulf football mentality (talking about man city) in arab gulf where teams are owned by princes, whenever a team lose, they change the coach and the selection and sometimes the board, u can have a team changing 5 coaches in one season. what u suggest will make evey player hesitate million time before making a dribble, or even making a run to take a pass...everyone will start to play it safe with no gamble, good?no! because u need ur players to be confident enough to TAKE responsibilities in the field, without panic that one mistake may throw them to the bench!
you really want to put pedro in the first home game this season, in his first season with the team, in the first game after the first defeat in the first week of the season?u really hate this BOY dont u?

you want to do it just to c how it work?i didnt know that next game is a friendly game...because in league games u dont try, u choose whom u know, and when the game is secured u start trying, but to change the two CBs together...thats not crazy as u mentioned, no offence its naive.

Finally regarding Robinho, he had one of two choices, either go back to madreed hooked with disgrace, or move to where he will be worshiped and to join those who promised him to be the corner stone in a huge project for the future.
regarding the price, if arab gulf business men started to fight for teams and transfers in europe, you will witness an inflation in transfer market that u never imagined, football will never be the same, and no it will not get better!

Nice link, IceMel! And I would add another twist to what it says... The day of Henry's presentation at the Camp Nou, right after signing for us, the sense of anticipation was so great that there were more people on the stand than the whole population of Soria...

this robinho to man city story is real!! i had to look it up to believe it but here is the evidence:

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/default....{DBD12D53-8346-431D-A04F-5D0F8664DE80}&newsid=6617331

the EE really needed him on sunday, and they look weak without his ability to come in in the second half and score a late equaliser or winner.
and good on man city, i dont watch the epl because it is so predictable, but it seems like they might really make a challenge this year. i will keep my eye on them.

i agree that the next match should be started with the stars on the bench. remember last season (or was it the season before?) where Xavi had some terrible games and he was put on the bench for a while by Rijkaard and then he came back all fired up and rejuvenated and i remember reading an interview where he said it really humbled him and made him remember that you cant win matches just by being famous or on your reputation but you have to work hard etc etc.
so perhaps henry, puyol, marquez and a couple of others should start on the bench. it will not only give youngsters like bojan and pedro some confidence because they will know the coach trusts them, but it will hopefully remind the stars that complacency is not acceptable and no matter how famous you are and how good you used to be, you still have to work hard in every match.

i think perhaps though that messi is a little ill-adjusted after playing with the argentina team for a month, he needs to get back into a barca mindset and catch up with the changes pep has made while he has been away so i think we should cut him some slack. we all watch him expecting him to be the saviour but with argentina he had aguerro, di maria, riquelme and many others who were not affraid to shoot and get into the box themselves whereas now at barca, the players are always trying to give messi the ball in the hope that he will save them.
not to say that messi has to learn to be the messiah (no pun intended) again, because that is not healthy, if we become so dependent on him then we siffer when he is away like after his injury in the champions league last year. we need confident strikers, like that shot eto'o took against numancia that came off the crossbar, shooting from distance will keep opponents on their toes and will also get us the occasional goal. everyone needs to be cinfident in themselves and not rely on our little whiz kid.

sorry this is so long, thats all

Thanks for that link, IceMel, it's a good story and it's always nice to read those, even at your team's expense, as you said...

A heart warming story...at our expense...but a good one nonetheless. Hope the story gets better vs EE!!

Official Robinho to Man City.
Funny. I do like Robinho, even more now. He won a lot of points for Madrid last season in fairness to him

I'm just seeing the news now. Holy crap! Can't believe Robinho would sign on for that program. He must have really wanted out of That Other Place.

Amazing what an infusion of real money will do for a side. And the EE won't have to face an angry Robinho in Champions League. Not bad.

Man U is still ahead in the Berbatov race, but what are there, minutes left in the transfer window?

If City can bid 34 million pounds for a 27 year old Berbatov then this one for Robinho dosen't feel that moronic ..does it?? but getting into the top 4 in EPL needs consistency more than anything else.. which, by the look of the turbulent times ahead at City, would be hard to buy..lets see... City scared the shit out of Utd by that Berbatov bid, that is for sure!

Not sure if you know Kxevin, City today announced the future takeover by ADUG, funded by one of the richest men on the planet who is big into his football. They announced their arrival today by launching bids for David Villa, Mario Gomez, Dimitar Berbatov and Robinho. They expect to spend big-time in January but he wants to push for top 4.
They have the bones of a very good squad there. And it's young. They bought Zabaleta from Espanyol yesterday. The likes of Vincent Kompany, Jo and Shaun Wright-Phillips have been added to a relatively successful side from last season.
1 or 2 class players and they won't be far off the CL spots

Oh and ManCity is a bunch of morons for dropping 42million euros on Robinho. What nonsense.

I'm with Jim on this one. I was highly disappointed by the game, but I saw it as an out-of-sync game and thus an anomaly rather than a suggestion of things to come. We'll be much better next time and we'll be much better from here on out. Get some games under our belts and we'll start to roll.

Sure, we lost, but we're not behind Madrid and that's important. Onward and upward, kids.

By the way, Abidal was only out of position once and it was on the goal, but good lord was he out of position. I thought that Iniesta and Henry should have come off at halftime because they were just standing and watching (the same argument could be made for Eto'o). Bojan was a way harder worker than anyone else, that's for sure, but we have to bury our chances, even if they aren't gilt-edged.

I'm not saying drop them, Jim. I just would like to see what the new guys can do for a match. Shaking things up is never bad, even early in a season. Morale is still high on this end, though I am bummed about not being able to get Clasico tickets (serves me right for sleeping in). I still think we are going to win the Liga, and go far in Champions League.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pass and move. It's why we looked so good in the pre-season. But when the matches became real, the old road bugbears reared their heads.

I think back to when the Chicago Bulls, in the Finals, went down 15 points to the Portland Trail Blazers. Phil Jackson pulled most (all?) of the starting five, and put in role players and journeymen. You know what? Those guys played old-fashioned hoops, brought the team back, then the starters came back in and sealed the deal. Yes. Michael Jordan was a cheerleader for almost all of the fourth quarter. :D That's what I'm talking about.

Mat, you'll see me sold to Citeh before Robinho. He would never consent to that kind of exile. No Champions League footy in anyone's future over there. Citeh has improved, but not to where they are going to crack the top 4 in the Premiership.

Wow, amazing what one bad result does to our morale, isn't it? I said it elsewhere in a post - this is only one result. We can't drop our best players ( Messi, Henry, iniesta etc. ) They are what should make us better than other sides. For what its worth.

1. We need to move more quickly from defense to attack. Early ball to Messi / Henry, one touch back and go.
2. We need the forwards to come back out of the box occasionally freeing up space for Iniesta and Xavi to make runs ahead of them (won't happen with Hleb, i don't think).
3. Messi needs to start using his pace wisely down the flanks - touch and go so that he only has one/two to beat. I actually ended up shouting at the telly at his predictability but you have to admire his heart.
4. We have a mess on our left side. period.

breaking news that Robinho has been sold to City for 40 million euros! ...if this one goes through..its playing out absolutely perfectly...Real are weakened big time...Chelsea are not stregthened..and City .... eh! don't care..

My starting XI for the next league match:

Valdes, Alves, Caceres, Pique, Abidal, Yaya, Keita, Xavi, Pedro, Hleb, Eto'o. Subs are Messi, Henry, Iniesta.

Brave and bold, and it will never happen. But I'm of the opinion that the same players, under pressure, are going to revert to type. Type, unfortunately, is what killed us last season. We have these new guys, let's see what they can do.

Anybody who doesn't pass and move gets yanked. Any excessive dribbling gets a 100 Euro fine.

Crazy, I know. But I'm a crazy kind of a guy. I'll remind everyone about my clamoring for a 4-2-4 that was answered last season. :D

it wasnt that bad of a foul, really, an iffy card. no big deal. but yeah belletti was also playing and scored a goal for chelsea, volleying in a corner from deco. it was a big barca fun fest. dos santos had a couple runs early and caused some trouble but then wasnt too involved -- chelsea controlled the latter part of the first half and dos santos came out early in the second for aaron lennon.